Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Consolamentum

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Consolamentum was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was that this has been withdrawn by Ta bu shi da yu.

"There were two main types of consolamentum. The first was that for only the most committed of believers. This was administered to willing adults, who once baptized became a parfait. Parfait had to be vegetarian, celibate, and had to dedicated their lives to travelling and teaching Cathar doctrines. These parfaits were the leaders of the Cathar community." Enough said. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:14, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep: no, not enough said. You could say, for example, what the criteria for deletion are. There is some poor grammar in there, but otherwise it looks like a good article to me. Should have been sent to cleanup, or just fixed!--Tomheaton 14:07, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • It seemed to be patent nonsense. It appears I'm wrong. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:56, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, and send to cleanup - nothing wrong with this article except improve-worthy phrasing -- Ferkelparade π 14:33, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Fascinating and encyclopedic. I can't imagine what the grounds for deletion would be. Andrewa 17:23, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong keep - this is definitely noteworthy and historical. It appears to have been the victim of bad machine translation. -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:24, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • No, just a victim of my failure to proofread. - SimonP 20:16, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. VfD is not cleanup, and this subject is both noteworthy and encyclopedic. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 18:57, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete without serious verification. I demand citations on this. The Albigensians were largely illiterate, and we just don't have any record of what they did that doesn't come from the few people who investigated them. On the other hand, there is now a group that considers itself Albigensian. These are dualists who claim that "true Christianity" was transmitted to Languedoc by Joseph and that the Roman Catholic Church led a crusade against it to serve Satan, etc. There is, therefore, a lot of wholesale invention of presumed Cathar belief. Unless this author has access to sources that have eluded medieval and theological historians, it smells very, very, very fishy. I call BS without references. (Anyone who wants to tell us, in detail, about Masonic, Templar, Rosicrucian, or Albigensian practice needs to be examined very closely.) Geogre 19:46, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • What do you mean there are no good sources on the Albigensians? In truth because they were so closely investigated and oft written about there is more information about Cathar peasants and daily life than there is about mainstream Catholic peasants during the Middle Ages. What is missing is clear understanding of their theology, not their practices. For the record the information in this article is mostly based on Le Roy Ladurie's Montaillou which takes its information from the Fournier Register, one of the most detailed surviving accounts of daily life in the Middle Ages. - SimonP 20:16, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
    • Their theology, yes. Since this article was about their church practice, I wanted to see citations. If you know the source and can add it, that would be great. I have spent some time reading up on the various Bogomil movements in Europe, from a church history point of view, and what they believed, how they preached, what they preached on, we only have some tidbits and allegations. If verified, I'll certainly agree that the article is worthy of keeping, but on sketchy (and nut-attracting) topics like the Cathars, we need to be very conservative. Add the references, please. I especially dislike the presumption that they became vegetarian. Also, the fact that the theology, so far as we know it, was virtually unregulated, it just seems difficult to be definitive about it. Geogre 23:07, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep it. Qualifications listed above. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 22:22, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • A clear keep. --L33tminion | (talk) 01:45, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I recall learning about this at University. Cathar practices are widely documented in Bernard Gui's Inquisitor's Manual. [[User:GeorgeStepanek|GeorgeStepanek\talk ]] 02:26, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.